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Tau Cabalander
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Posted - 2014.04.24 18:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
CSM8 - January 2014 Summit Minutes wrote:Mynnna ended the meeting by insulting all industrial alliances and saying that they will never be more relevant than a PvP alliance who does industry as a hobby. Or it might be more delicately put that Mynnna made an accurate, evidence-based characterization of the historical relationship between purely industrial focused 0.0 groups and PvP focused groupsGǪ |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
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Posted - 2014.04.25 17:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:So the question remains: why "waste" scarce facilities on people who only want to extract money from your PvPers, when you can let the PvPers use those same facilities?
I take that as a rhetorical question.
Let me describe my situation. I really enjoy industry. Even the "boring" mining, hauling, and fiddling with spreadsheets. I'd like to join a nulsec PvP alliance, join fleets and go on combat roams looking for trouble; I'm interested in the roles of Logi and heavy tackle (I can pilot anything though, aside from titans and transports). I'd also like to help with keeping local markets stocked, moving people's stuff, keeping towers and bridges fueled, etc. I lived in w-space for ~2.75 years, so I don't expect to need much hand-holding out in nulsec.
However, they don't seem to be interested in me, or suddenly stop listening when I mention my deep interest in industry and the other "boring" activities.
I can't lie about it; I'm industry first, but not to the exclusion of combat. I've also long been an advocate for industrialists to have at least basic combat skills for PvP. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3515
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Posted - 2014.04.26 06:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Essentially you're trying to get into the marines on the basis of your bed-making and latrine digging skills and expecting those to be enough to excuse you from fighting, even though all the marines already in service can make their own bad and dig a latrine already.
I think you missed the part about my interest in getting involved in PvP.
That sort of proves my point. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2014.04.26 19:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:I think you missed the part about my interest in getting involved in PvP.
That sort of proves my point. Did I miss that? Then I apologise; I was pretty tired yesterday.
This thread is proving to be a microcosm of what I've experienced though.
Malcanis wrote:If you're genuinely looking to pvp and you want to join an EU TZ alliance whose individual members already conduct significant industrial operations, then put an app in to VANIS.
I'm in the US TZ, though you wouldn't know it by my activity which tends to be mostly US West, and all the way into AUS because 4 hours sleep is enough for anyone... might explain the narcolepsy though, j / k. I also predominantly work 4 day weeks because of way too much accumulated vacation time (a decade's worth), and I have no life outside of EVE.
... but enough about me. Back to the topic.
Those corps that are more accepting of combat-willing industrialists, for lack of a better term, could benefit from advertising their existing industry side as much as their PvP side. The only group that immediately springs to mind is BOVRL, for instance, known as the "blood miners".
The term "Industrialist" is all too often equated with "Carebear" as a derogatory label. There are indeed plenty of those participating in industry that I wouldn't label as industrialists. Despite what anybody may state to the contrary, I don't agree that one can be AFK and still call themselves an industrialist. It will likely take years and many industry patches, if ever, for industrialists to shed the negative image. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
3519
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Posted - 2014.04.27 06:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:The industry referred to is overwhelmingly conducted by individual members as private ventures. With the exception of supercaps building and I guess some capital replacement programs, that industry currently isn't conducted to support the alliance; it's done as a means of income like ratting or mining or whatever else.
So some individual alliance members are "industry" guys, but virtually no landholding alliances are. You see the difference?
It is unfortunate that EVE has this PvP and industry dichotomy, because as you put it there isn't any reliance on industry.
I'd probably rent a system, or join a renter corp, if the current landlords didn't hold all renters with such utter contempt. They are even made to wear badges of disgrace in some cases: B0T, PBLRD.
You've made it clear that there really isn't a need for nulsec-based industrialists. |
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